In writing these posts on an extensive subject generally comes down more to what I don't write than what I do write. I could waffle on for hours . . . , and it is up to the reader to ask for clarification, which I can do.

In the paragraph:

Quote:I said the practice was temporary in my garden, well that is because the practice originates in the Hindu, and subsequently my garden got a lot of attention from other-worldly Hindu people who would visit here. That upset my garden's little Nature spirits, and so the practice was stopped. A similar thing with Biodynamic agriculture methods I employed here. That brings Anthroposophists in its wake.

I should add that when I say "the Hindu" what I actually mean is the Hindu dreamscape. The same when I refer to Anthroposophy as in the dreamscape of Anthroposophy. One can also say the Catholic dreamscape for that matter. They all work on the same principal; shared interactive dreamscapes. One could use the word world instead of dreamscape as a synonym in the context of this thread. "The spiritual worlds" for example, implies more than one spiritual world. That is what they are, worlds separate from each other.  Ideologies too.

The catch, the trap one might say, is the Catholics said that their religion includes everything. That implies that there is nothing outside Catholicism because "god" made everything.  If we take the Catholic word for it, well, we can't go or see outside.  The new age has it's "universe", a similar thing. That is how these things work.

   

Grok?

So when I used Agnihotra and Biodynamics in my garden what actually occured was I included nodes to other dreamscapes, which the Nature Beings didn't appreciate.  That is why I stopped the practices. One can look at these things in terms of computer networking;  network nodes were created linking other dreamscapes to my garden's shared interactive dreamscape.

The greys  tried this out on me one time with the opening words: "All is one." - my response was a sarcastic ; "yeah right . . ." We got on on fairly equal terms after that.

So let's take a look at the role of dreams and their relationship to hallucinogenics, and in turn we can then gain insights into the sharman's practices. It is all related in a very practical way.

In Lucid Dreaming (LD'ing) the body is asleep, and the consciousness is awake. We can consciously do things in the LD. That seems to be the principal of some Remote Viewing (RV'ing) techniques.

When we use hallucinogenics, the body is awake, and we are dreaming. Think of the hallucinogenic experience as a dream overlay on our waking consciousness.

I have mentioned the basics elsewhere here on Cypher Age (CA), I shall quickly run through it again. We don't need esoteric jargon, nor do we need quantum physics. It is deceptively simple really.

What we will use is Euclidean geometry and a branch of mathematics called topology. Euclidean geometry got its name from a Greek philosopher by the name of Euclid.  Euclidean geometry is basically what arises from the three-dimensional view of the world.

So length x width x height. We all know this.

Here is a tennis ball.

   

Now let's add two more dimensions, inside and outside to make five dimensions (5D).

   

The tennis ball has a boundary that separates inside and outside.

That is 5D in a nutshell : )

If we kick our tennis ball, we add the dimension of motion/time, so six dimensions.

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Now we need to understand surfaces.

Topology is the mathematics that describes surfaces. All we really need to know here is surfaces are boundaries. The surface of a tennis ball is the boundary between the dimensions of inside and outside.


So let's look at a two dimensional object (2D).

A 2D object has width x height (and zero depth). A window for example. Another example is the looking glass (mirror). In both cases the surface is between the glass and the air. The same with a pond or lake. The surface exists between the water and the air. It is said that Naostradamus used a bowl of water and ink to scry the future. We can call that an example of using a 2D surface as a window.

In the Arthurian legend, Nemue, the Lady of the Lake, would arise from the surface of the water.  That is an example of using a surface as a 2D doorway.

Lewis Carroll's Through The Looking Glass And what Alice Found There is another example of the 2D doorway. 

   

We can also think of our tennis ball as a 2D object. The inside and outside is the important consideration. In practice, the inside size is not constrained by the outside dimensions. Theoretically, the inside of a sphere can be virtually infinite. This is so in consciousness. In a way, external dimensions are very difficult to estimate when we are working with consciousness. So we don't need to be concerned with measurements here.

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Once we grasp 5D and boundaries, we can begin to move on to navigation. In standard GPS navigation, our computer screen shows a map with our position in the centre. We stay stationary and the map moves. In consciousness, we are also the centre of the universe, and everything else is relative to us and our position. In practice, navigation can be called relative positioning. We move in relation to objects that are separate from us.

If we think in terms of the universe as an undifferentiated sea of consciousness, we are ignoring boundaries.

Everything has a boundary, you, me, the cat, everything is separated by the boundaries of their consciousness.  If this were not so, we would not have a sense of self, a sense of me. Nor would there be a you. So ego is not a dirty word, we need ego or there is no "I", "me" or "you".

So our undifferentiated sea of consciousness now becomes a sea full of bubbles, a sea of foam. All those bubbles have boundaries.

These bubbles of individual consciousness are not neatly arranged in a tidy geometric pattern. They do move around. We also have the fact that everything changes. So one may think of a bubble within the waters of time.

Our little bubbles of consciousness can also exist within bigger bubbles.  An example here is a collective consciousness such as an ideology, religion, nation, egregore, and the family. A world can be defined in this way too.

I can enlarge on this now and in the future for those who want to understand.

I shall leave this post at this point, and in the near future we shall look at some practical things that can be understood using this model. The shamanic, the hallucinogenic, and even the so-called schizophrenia.

In the post above, I've given a very simple worldview that is home grown, one might say. A series of experiences spanning decades is what it is based on.  This is based on an even simpler premise. That premise was to put aside book learning, and everything I thought I knew. So I gave away my library and did my best to forget everything, and start from the very beginning and learn everything first hand for my self.

One of the very first lessons was to learn to think in six dimensions. The post above describes 5D world view.  Motion/time is dimension number six.

Here is a 3D object, what we ordinarily think of.

   

Here is the same 3D object showing the two additional dimensions of inside and outside.

   

So we have a five dimensional sphere as the basic unit.  There is also a boundary.  The inside equates with self, and the outside equates with not-self. This is the "me" and the "not me".  What is outside our boundary of consciousness is "not me". That is because I am self aware. If we perceive another sphere beside us, we can say "me and you".  Both of us have our own separate boundaries. We can stand in a crowd in this way as individuals.

Let's take another example of a 5D object in the automobile. A car is also a 5D object having an inside and an outside. Cars also have wheels which adds the sixth dimension of motion/time. Cars exist within a roadway system. That system can be said to be a closed space as ordinarily we cannot drive our cars off the roadway. A roadway also has a boundary.

   

This is the basics of understanding consciousness. Not much different than the world we live in. We just need to get our heads around thinking in five dimensions rather than three dimensions. We also need to keep in mind boundaries.

   

We can also consider our worldly institutions as closed spaces. The family, the school, the workplace are all examples of closed spaces in consciousness. These greater closed spaces have their own rules of conduct, and world views. When we embrace these rules as our own, we fit in and essentially we live inside that closed space. Here we have cults, religions, lodges, nations which gives rise to nationalism and nationalistic world views. This is also why it is difficult to get someone free of a cult. The cult world view is something within which the cultist lives. One can say they are trapped within a closed space.

We can also say the cultist is dreaming while awake . . .

If we can grasp the deceptively simple concept of thinking in five dimensions, we have the basis of doing interesting things with consciousness that we cannot do in three dimensions.

What I have found is, when we learn to think in five dimensions we find a common thread running through the rather interesting subjects of the shaman, hallucinogenics, schizophrenia, remote viewing, the so-called alien abduction, the contactee, and the creatures of folklore.  We can also include here initiation within the mystery schools.

That common thread through all those subjects is dreaming while awake. The key here to understanding is the dream as a five dimensional object within consciousness, a five dimensional closed space.

Like a lot of subjects wrapped in mystical and psychological jargon, dreams are quite the mundane subject and not mysterious at all. We all dream, and the body knows how to do it. This is not much different from seeing shadow people in our peripheral vision, this is a natural ability and nothing overly mysterious. There is another thread on the subject of the shadow people by the way.

In the shadow people thread, we demonstrated that seeing shadow people was an inherent ability everybody has. We just need to train the eyesight by paying attention to what we see in our peripheral vision.

We can also train our body's ability to dream while awake in a similar way. We can also take a hallucinogenic such as DMT or LSD and achieve the same thing. My only objection to the use of hallucinogenics is the simple fact that in a four-hour trip, one can't change one's mind after the first three minutes.

So let's get down to basics. The body's natural ability to dream while awake is what we call the daydream. In the daydream, time is different, and the mind creates an interactive scenario, we get lost in that and to the observer our mind is said to be elsewhere. Lost in thought and other euphemisms.

A curious thing can happen after someone we know passes away. Perhaps a week or two after the event, we sometimes find ourselves talking with the deceased. This usually happens when we are doing something mundane, such as washing the car. Talking with the deceased is usually dismissed as a daydream afterwards.

But what happens there?

We are doing mundane things only needs half our attention, driving a car is like that. We have done it so often it becomes subconscious in a way.  That is the perfect state to create a daydream. The daydream is a conscious closed space and doesn't have to follow the rules of physics of the waking world. It is when we are in this state that the deceased can enter the closed space in consciousness (daydream) and talk with us (in our minds). In the daydream, we are not going to dismiss the deceased as a figment of our imagination at the time. So the deceased can talk to the living, and we can talk to them as a natural ability.

People often do this. They just don't like to admit it.

Once we learn to recognise the state of mind as a waking dream state, new worlds may open for use.  The five dimensional way of thinking is the way I was taught to navigate these new worlds of consciousness.

I may as well add this isn't disclosure of some sort of secret arcane knowledge of some mystery school, nor anything like that. 

Outside the human world, this is all common knowledge.

Now that we have the principal of five dimensions, a 5D closed space, let's introduce another simple and practical concept we take for granted.

The container and the contained.

An example here is the humble kettle and water. The kettle is a container for water that has a defined shape in three dimensions. Water on the other hand is fluid. So when we fill our kettle with water the kettle defines the shape of the water therein. Inside the container (kettle) the water takes the shape of the interior of the container. Take the container away and the water again becomes fluid.

Consciousness is like water and the dream is the container. Therefore: the container and the contained. The kettle defines the water.

The earliest container that our conscious is defined by is our family. The family is also an example of a shared interactive dreamscape. We have a father and mother, siblings, and great and grandparents, aunts and uncles and cousins. Our family also has a home within which our immediate family live. We have definition, rules and relationships. We have family (inside) and non family (outside).

When we go to school, we enter another shared interactive dreamscape with its own definition, in which we live for a time.

Then the workplace for many of us, another shared interactive dreamscape.

We also have the ideologies as collective dreamscapes. In occult circles, they use the term egregore to describe a collective thought form that eventually gains a life of its own.

What matters here is recognising the principals of five dimensional objects, and the container and the contained in the world around us.

If we grok five dimensions in terms of consciousness, along with the principal of the container and the contained, the world we live in becomes easier to understand. This post will add a few more thoughts on the mundane perspective. I have used the word 'dream' as synonymous for the term 'closed space'. That is because the ability to perceive closed spaces is the ability to dream. This is the human centric perspective.

Our consciousness resides in a physical body. We all understand that.

Our physical body needs a home, and that would be a physical house.

In the same way, our consciousness needs a home.

The first home our consciousness resides in is the physical body. If just that, we would be alone.

So the family is the first home our consciousness has in this respect. Mother, father, brother, sister, grandparents and so on. The family is a five dimensional object, with both inside and outside. There are important things to learn within the family. With little kids, we understand that they need to feel safe and cared for.

The second home is the kindergarten, and school. These are also five dimensional closed spaces, and like the family the schools are shared interactive closed spaces (dreams). In middle childhood we learn that there is a world outside our family, along with how to behave inside those. The family home is not the same as the schoolyard. Clubs are also closed spaces.

The workplace is another, along with religions and other interests.

If we recognise these things as five dimensional objects, we can stand either outside or within. With the five dimensional view, we also learn a sense of detachment. We can also understand why people become closed-minded, and even fanatical.

In the closed-minded person this is often because they are within a school of thinking (closed space) and have lost sight of what is outside, such as other viewpoints. In the fanatic, they are stuck inside a closed space and can't see out. The only rules for them are the rules of that closed space.

here is something to consider. When a religion tells us that god created everything, that is a trap for the consciousness. The new age introduced a similar thing by using the word "universe" to define something "higher". The word universe is also all-inclusive. The same trap. If we believe this is so, we negate the possibility of there being anything outside the religion or the philosophy in question, and we are stuck in there. See the trap?

Shared interactive closed spaces (dreams) are homes for consciousness, with like-minded people with common interests.

I won't waffle on here because it is not difficult to work this out, especially in bringing up children, and our own wellbeing. We just have to find a comfy closed space as a home for our consciousness to live in.

With that out of the way, and being able to see the five dimensional world view, we can examine some other interesting things.

NobodySpecial268

I've really struggled  to understand the 5D concept and your last two posts have added some clarity for me. I'm getting there! 

(06-28-2025, 02:11 PM)Nugget Wrote: NobodySpecial268

I've really struggled  to understand the 5D concept and your last two posts have added some clarity for me. I'm getting there! 

It's a consciousness thing, you'll get there Nugget.

Once one gets the five dimensional perspective, one has to keep in mind boundaries.

The boundary is between inside and outside in a five dimensional object. If we consider Islam and Catholicism as five dimensional objects with boundaries, the two are separated from each other. We can also stand outside both of them and see them for what they are. Big egg shaped five dimensional objects.

In a two dimensional object such as a looking glass (mirror), the boundary is to be found between the glass and the air. Length x width with zero depth. The same with the surface of a body of water such as a pond.

Once we get used to the idea of five dimensional objects with boundaries, we can start to think about crossing those boundaries. Motion/time then becomes the sixth dimension.

This isn't anything special, the fairy folk, and everyone else outside of humanity know all this, and this is how they get about.

Then consciousness becomes something navigable, which is the art of relative positioning.

If one grasps the five dimensional model, boundaries, and one's relative position within that model of consciousness, one has a fundamental understanding of consciousness. I did say it was deceptively simple, and more than once.

The modern day analog is computer systems.

From memory, the people who designed UNIX (a computer operating system) set out to make the equivalent of the human mind. (Those who know better can feel free to correct me : ) That aside, the standalone computer workstation can be said to be an individual human. Workstations are a part of a local network. Local networks are connected within a larger network, and so on.

If we understand computer networking, we can understand networking within consciousness.  We should keep in mind that some networks are not connected with any other networks. This is so in conscious too. Additionally, navigating computer networks isn't as easy as it seems.  Boundaries in consciousness also act as firewalls, as they do in networking.  We all have our own firewall, which is of course our boundary of self.

Understanding the fundamentals of consciousness allows us to understand some of the mysteries, and not just how a fairy uses the surface of a pond to visit our world.

"World", now that reminds me of an important point. The word "world" has a special implication that applies here. We have heard such terms as the world of martial arts. Also the world of embroidery, pottery and so on. We can also say the world of the Catholic, the world of Islam, and so forth.  I have heard it said that the church is not the building, the church is something that accompanies the Christian.

That is how closed spaces in consciousness works.

Dreaming is the ability to create closed spaces in consciousness, thus dreams, and what are dreams if they are not worlds.